[00:00:01.18] – John Knych
Hello Hiron Ennes, thank you for being here. Today we will be discussing The Works of Vermin, doing a round table discussion, and will start with Noémie, with your first question.
[00:00:13.09] – Noémie
Yes! Sure. So my first question was: Did some of the ideas that you had for your first book didn’t really find their place in the first book, in Leech, and then they found their final ways into this one, was it something that you had to work with?
[00:00:28.13] – Hiron Ennes
So there were some parts of Leech, that made it into Works of Vermin, but the parts of Leech that actually did make their way into Vermin, were very minor parts of Leech, so for instance: one of the characters in Leech, Helen, in an earlier draft, like her back story was that she was actually really famous cellist from the city, and that got me sort of rolling into: I wonder what music is like in a world like this that has like ended over and over and over again? And like what changes have taken place to music theory and performance and art in general and I sort of like that really small part of Leech; I sort of followed down this bizarre tunnel all the way to the Vermin, and which art is basically just a huge part of life, in their part it; the world.
[00:01:35.00] – John Knych
Thank you now and to Brandon.
[00:01:39.19] – Brandon
Thank you so much for being here really appreciate this.
[00:01:44.15] – Hiron Ennes
Yeah, thanks for having me.
[00:01:46.01] – Brandon
So I guess can you explain like how your world building process a little bit…did you…I mean you have this incredibly imaginative unique world that you’ve built up. So did you build the world first, and then write your story, or did you kind of do it as you were writing the story? You just add more and more of the world? I mean how was your whole process of world building?
[00:02:10.23] – Hiron Ennes
You are so it was sort of intergrated processes. I came up with the general bones of the story of Vermin first. I knew it was going to be in this war of Lush hot wet disgusting city, but that’s all that I really know when I went in and started writing the first chapter and the first chapter the first of chapter of Vermin, changed considerably over a period of three months. I just wrote the beginning over and over and over again because something wasn’t right like originally some of the creatures that the exterminator would go after word of ghost like etherial things that want it all and you know that was two broad I needed to know it down. What sort of what sort of creatures would terrorize the city built in two and three stump. Oh you know, but I’m just gonna I’m gonna keep it the boys. I’m gonna keep it the past and then from there the sort of mafioso like world of computing extermination company of integrated from that idea downward and it was as far as like world building on the over city side to like what happens at the opera ?
[00:03:41.08] – Hiron Ennes
Is it ? You know Is it gladiatorial or not do people make it on the outcome of the story that they see. Those to be sort of arrived at me in the same way where I Something what happened to be like all ? That’s not quite right. And then I leave it for a while I think about it. And then that element the world building with sort of present itself as a solution to do whatever the character were stuck doing. So it was a very very integrated process.
[00:04:16.02] – John Knych
Interesting great, thank you to Jane and also I need to say it loud that doing the roundtable discussion. Anyone does not have a question or if it’s very bad and you can just pass so and.
[00:04:29.23] – Jenn
Thanks for being here. I’ve enjoyed both of your books, so. Environmental collapse is really embedded in English in Vermin, and I was wondering to feel like the environment is kind of a caractère in your books and not just the backdrop.
[00:04:47.03] – Hiron Ennes
Absolutely I think that the environment, whether or not, it’s a Géographique. Or ecological as it was in Nietzsche and I mean and in Vermin to but whether or not. It’s like the natural environment or the natural environment like the system that people build like from the rebels of worlds that comes before are really really integrated into how I like to tell my stories and the the environment itself sort of play the role as a team like in which you know isolation and loneliness was huge. So why would it take place in in in your way ? The same way Vermin is where where is Vermin is about excess and life and arts and culture and and all of these things sort of Evolve with the caractères and because of the caractère. So yeah I think I love to integrate, whatever is happening in the environment. Whether it socio-politico economiques or natural. I’d love to incorporate that into the story and have it with caractère pretty directly.
[00:06:14.17] – Jenn
Thank you.
[00:06:17.00] – John Knych
Thank you and.
[00:06:23.12] – Brian
Thank you both both here because we’re all right when it came out and I think I think about it. Yeah, which is good for a while so my first question on this one, just to go on the world building and so how do you ? How do you decide like when you are going to use it a little bit, but when you’re building the setting. How do you decide which elements too much together because some of the things really felt like in both books that they wouldn’t fit for most stories, because you have this, you know technology of like this kind of world that you can have been discovered even even in Vermin, they said you know they talk about the discovery of the camera like even things like that our technology has been lost and come back there there building their society on top of the ruins of something that used to be there, but then you have you know the culture being built on this, you have you know environment and you have been built into the stump of this great tree and you have this river and you know the past and everything Obviously, how do you decide, which actually will fit for your stories.
[00:07:38.19] – Hiron Ennes
All that’s hard. I think my process I can I think with Sofia Samatar who said that like the way I write a book is I write a book and then delete the person of it and that that was kind of at least in the case for vermine is that I like first draft totally overstuff there were footnotes. There were long rambling acid Victor Hugo about like the like there is all sort of shit in there that I found I was quite delighted in what I was told by my editor today. I got it so half of it half of the things that stay and half of things that got the things that got at first got because they might be contrary to where I want the story to go like I really love and elements, but I’ll be like this exists in this world than it presence like two years Easy of a solution for something is find some situation my caractère find themselves in or if it, if it is contradictoire to the story not necessarily like and celery to the stories because there’s a lot of environment and that’s just sort of like meandering Worldbuilding that I love and I love saying that in books a lot of the time, but there’s a lot that doesn’t necessarily people the story, but it’s not like countries indicated in this in this process, so usually by the time, I give a first draft to someone all of the worldbuilding elements that are included are the one that are not necessarily like totally countries and then from there it becomes like.
[00:09:39.10] – Hiron Ennes
Kill your darlings one by one brutally and over a long period of time. And there have been many darlings that have been cut from this but a lot of things that have said.
[00:09:54.04] – Brian
It’s awesome. Thank you.
[00:09:56.00] – John Knych
Typekit. Brian continue with the worldbuilding theme.
[00:10:00.23] – Hiron Ennes
And go for ever.
[00:10:02.12] – John Knych
Before it before I do after sometimes ask how we discovered them. So I need to shoot out. Peter Watts who is an author we had before you when we ask him. He should we read here immediately said Nietzsche and then Jeanne and Brian had already read and so we were super happy to read your book before it’s related to the public, so that that’s how I guess.
[00:10:27.22] – Hiron Ennes
I love this writing. I I think he’s great, Yes.
[00:10:33.16] – John Knych
We have a question related to the similarity and and and style, but continue with worldbuilding with maybe we get back to that later. So it’s just now how you decide what to keep and that many darlings are killed. When you’re digging for digging and building the world Do you ? Do you read history and people from history ? And I ask because when I came across like a margrave, which I have hereditary title for some prince of roman empire and then soon after a silver writing which has a drinking vessel from Greece. So are you I mean that you study history and this is just there. Or are you reading history ? So like when you’re digging where you find in all this information.
[00:11:19.23] – Hiron Ennes
So when I’m digging, it’s an interesting process particularly for veerman. I mean I guess and it’s because both of these both of these stories takes place like thousands of thousands of years and the future like on sort of like layers of dead society, the same way we live it up layers of. Heroes of Geological time and my goal for putting little bit and pieces of history is to make it sort of delightful incongruous. There are some like I never studied history formally, but there are some factors and some things that I love about the society that have comes before and that are still going on. And. I like to get them in a way that is not historically accurate or in a way that like sometimes like when we look at history from an archaeological perspective. WE can’t really know what these people were using this object for or what significant other things are like WE don’t we can make our best guess, but we don’t really know. So my goal girl in integrating some like anachronistic historical things in Vermin was sort of from that I would like to like maybe they found this or they saw this in a picture that they dug up and they’re like all we want to recreate it because we think it’s beautiful.
[00:13:01.17] – Hiron Ennes
But we don’t know we don’t know what it’s for or you know why why they used to use it so like in the case of the right and it’s something that you like this is the type of your CB in during gladiatorial Oprah battle. You know you don’t you don’t drink from it like it’s just you all of my historical references are anachronistic in the city and they don’t come from like necessarily a deep understanding of history. Because that’s not like my goal is not to accurately recreate historical society, but just like pick and choose from the same way that that we sometimes pick and choose meaning from the past that we don’t necessarily know is through.
[00:13:49.10] – John Knych
Thank you right back. Back to the top. Noémie.
[00:13:53.07] – Noémie
Alright. Thank you. I am very curious about your inspiration. It’s something. I’m very curious. I think with all the authors that we’ve meet when I read Leeds and this book I really thought about China miéville for example with the beat of the fucked-up society that he’s building on top of each other that makes sense. I don’t know if it was something that you thought about but to me gave me this. I thought that with all about Nausicaa as well the Ghibli movie and I thought about Oliver twist and I don’t know if you, you know had inspiration that you draw from when writing the book.
[00:14:28.22] – Hiron Ennes
I think those are good inspiration actually China Miéville definitely someone that I read in my things that was super for me. So pretty the street station is definitely like a very very blatant inspiration for this, I would say. And it also gets compared to it a lot. I have this horrible habits of being inspired by things that I’ve never seen or red. So the reason why I started with Jeff Vandermeer who my love by the way is because someone said that Jeff or someone said that he was like and celery justice meets Jeff Vandermeer and I hadn’t red idea of those things and that I read them and I’m like us. This is great. Similarly I’ve never seen it like I just watch the thing like a couple of months ago. And I’m like Oh, I see I see you, but yeah. I think that a lot of my inspiration, especially for Vermin comes from a very weird Place Perdido Street Station. Definitely one kind of monte Cristo is definitely in inspiration for it as well. And then I would say Jeff vandermeer again.
[00:15:55.24] – Hiron Ennes
But I did it again where I had not red is ambergris trilogy until I was like halfway through Vermin, and then I read it and I’m like. This is also it’s very similar to this as well. So I could I would say that those those inspirations are definitely there, whether or not there are some of like osmose from the environment. So if anyone wants to come perdido street station, definitely and then the ambergris trilogy by Jeff Vandermeer as well just about these super weird city where just how it takes place all the time those are those ten to be like my favourite kinds of books.
[00:16:41.24] – Noémie
When I was describing the book to my husband. I was saying it’s basically Jeff vandermeer made China Miéville. It was like Oh so that’s exactly what you love the most. It was like Yes exactly the book. I was talking to him about this like the last few few days when I was reading it and I was trying to try to understand how it would meet in the middle basically. It was like that’s it. That’s the total opposite of what you’re saying and he was very beautiful, the conversation with absolutely nowhere and it was beautiful, but I’m happy to see that it was the inspiration that I kind of guests. Thank you so much for that I want I want the one. Thank you.
[00:17:24.08] – John Knych
Noemi. How do culture step into us right ? That’s it.
[00:17:28.19] – Hiron Ennes
Yeah yeah. And I would say that is inspired by the thing. Even though. I had seen the thing because I feel like just the idea of it is through so many different like other piece of art that by the time. You get back to like the age which I guess itself is a remake of something, which is best of who is there ? So it’s you know. They’re all floating out. There are not and culture. Culture is our minds and always that we don’t necessarily. We’re not necessarily aware of.
[00:18:06.13] – John Knych
All of you and before moving on the brand. I’m happy that you said to Christo was the inspiration because spoilers for anyone listening. I’m gonna say the end, but ending on the boat. I was like you. This is because you sprinkle little French. There’s little french fries and there’s two and so I hear that was happy I enjoyed.
[00:18:24.22] – Hiron Ennes
Et I want I wanted the running off on the boat think I’m like, ok ? That’s coming straight from Dumas.
[00:18:32.17] – John Knych
It’s timeless until brandon.
[00:18:38.03] – Brandon
I thought the relationship between down and guy was really interesting. There’s this kind of unrequited love going on down seems infatuation would be kind of in the toxique way. I can you took a little bit about how you came up with that.
[00:18:55.16] – Hiron Ennes
I think I think just saying. I guess like some of my personal experience going into this novel inspired that things that I’ve seen between like close friends or not to go into any of details about that, but it’s like it’s kind of a very common experiment experience to I’d like by someone or close friendship where you’re not like quite sure if it’s gonna sort of another into something else if both partie are involved, there were Are saying that happen to different people and evolve and sometimes very interesting and sometimes kind of tragique ways. Automatically I think I wanted a really fucking weird love triangle cause the. This book is basically just like a huge piece of baroque theater of spread over for Android pages and so I took some like obviously like you know it’s very theatrical and a lot of things are lifted from you know classique opera and I love triangle is pretty much and necessity, but I wanted I love trying all that wasn’t between that wasn’t necessarily romantic and wasn’t between like usually it’s between two men and women. The love triangle I guess in between a dude his bunk might and his sister and day and it’s not necessarily romantic love between the three of them.
[00:20:45.03] – Hiron Ennes
But the way that they interact with each other and they are a-changin or not necessarily. Recommended and their needs are not necessarily might and I think that was a fun and interesting thing to explore. And I think that’s that is the source of the the sort of unrequited love between guys and down.
[00:21:11.09] – Brandon
Thank you. I think I read a lot of science-fiction mostly so I don’t see that very often. So that was interesting. Thank you.
[00:21:20.24] – John Knych
Thank you. Brandon. Moving on to if you have a question.
[00:21:25.15] – Jenn
I am so I watch and interview you did about leech and the interview or this question and I’m stealing. It was there is there something you wanted to fit into this book that it didn’t make it and you want readers to know or just something that you really love that just couldn’t fit.
[00:21:45.11] – Hiron Ennes
So many things so many tiny things are used to be a lot more manual entry and they would have like a little footnote for each of them and there were like so many weird bugs that did weird things there was like and and that by you that would make you seen. There was there were just like so many little box that couldn’t quite make it in, but that still leave in your us. And then this one almost well, it’s sort of his halfway there, but headcannon is that the magical girl actually survived ten different apocalypse and it’s a very popular author. Joanna. Now with it stuck around in the form of a little orphan of the details of which I don’t actually go into you, but it’s a magical girl enemy opera and I wish I could have gone into that a little more.
[00:22:59.19] – Jenn
Oh, that’s awesome. Thank you.
[00:23:04.05] – John Knych
Before you got the Brian was that removed the hand that makes you seen. What was the editor’s reason.
[00:23:10.07] – Hiron Ennes
That was that was on me. It was. It was okay, okay. There’s a lot of that are that are derived from these creatures in this world. And I think it was it ended up being when aster and Mallory, and elspeth are in that sort of a Aix-en-Provence nightclub and they’re doing they’re doing the third eye that it was originally seen it like this, but I thought that there might be too many drugs in this world. Cause we already have like that we already have like regular cocaïne, we already have. A lot of different stuff and I’m like there are just too many drugs. I’m gonna narrow this down. Just the third eye that so the sun and sorry man. You got booted. You got it in favour of the mouth.
[00:24:18.09] – John Knych
Thank you on the Brian.
[00:24:22.21] – Brian
A all right so my next one is about the role of violence and the story violence and also potentially that some overlap there. So we have talked about how the story of the very hard heavy world. There’s a lot of you know. There’s a lot of painting. There’s sculpture. There’s the performing is like you know another art form as well. And it seems like the way the people view violence in this world is through almost one hundred pour 100 artistique perspective like they discuss constantly. How beautiful is where you know the persons or even the dead body and things like that. And I was all about that. And then this can be kind of a follow-up or maybe I said I don’t know, but the dictator that they’re extracted from the new the new blog to me. It really seems like that one thing was like that, it was the symbol of like the violence in the world itself with the way, the shape, the shape, the city changed really everything I came in the contact with the left scare it like changed how they were the people who did all of different things and I guess what it was that perfectly just commentary on the role of violence play and society or something like that.
[00:25:52.02] – Hiron Ennes
Yeah so. Yeah about this question of linked together. I think that the. The role of violence, the role of violence. Play in your head is a hundred person spot on it like everything in this world is viewed from the artistic art esthétique land. And I don’t think I don’t think that is too far removed from our own world, because I think that I mean. Not to not to go. So she has to say this. This world is literally about the theatre of war and optics are a thing. And we can also see the beauty in violence sport like Mama Marshall are boxing. There is a strange elegance to really well fought fight and I wanted to sort of extra-plate that this about that we have already have. But don’t aknowledge that a lot of a lot of violence in our our world is esthétique. It is performative. It is like not to go into detail, but what we’re seeing right now the brutality and violence in the United States, right ? Right now that is being perpetual and the city is is it is performed.
[00:27:44.07] – Hiron Ennes
It is a message. It’s not it’s not to any purpose. Besides cruelty itself and to send a message and so that that aspect of violence as an esthétique as a message as something that is performed already exists in our world. But we. When I want it like when I was making the world of Vermin. I wanted it to be acknowledged like here like we the people we lives. WE think about optic sometimes but in you are when you kill people and you are always thinking about optic and how how this ? This action that has very real consequences for human life is sort of secondary of how it looks like. For instance like chanceler gosselin tells his marshals to you no kill a few of that he thinks are you but like don’t don’t be heavy handed about it. I don’t want my rain associated with tastes like that was very useful and I just wanted to see how violence would be Acknowledged and reacted to in a world that that value over material condition or not saying that we don’t value in this world over material condition, but.
[00:29:38.14] – Hiron Ennes
It was sort of like just taking to like the rococo extreme. You know and I think to that and yeah, that’s the way it change people the way it leaves scars the way it is used as essentially explosives and a fumigant and and all these different all these different aspects of what could arguably be Chemical Warfare. Yeah ! I think that exotoxine is very very indicative of like that the distillation of violence itself in this world that makes any sense sorry that was a kind of a rambling answers.
[00:30:21.01] – Brian
Great. Thank you.
[00:30:23.02] – John Knych
Thank you very good question. The. Question is what you want to ask before in relation to the Peter was before I say that this just piggy back off of Brian and your response. It’s a very bleak view of the world. Maybe if we keep stacking society for hundreds of years violence. We’ll just be like that is in your book, right ? Where it’s it’s it’s glorified And it’s not only. That’s not where we’re going.
[00:30:57.10] – Hiron Ennes
To end up somewhere better. I don’t have a lot of hope that we will be and you know that will end up somewhere weird her. I think that however, our society and it’s gonna be weird and stupid that’s all I want to say.
[00:31:12.19] – John Knych
Yes, it’s speaking of weird. So you’re your style hearing. Head Peter Watts its his voice is is like no other. This is very bizarre. There is no cliché and was the same experience with with you. And that there is no cliché that like the first thing I wrote in my notes was that every sentence just feels out of him out of someplace new and there there are a lot of this next to the brand said about like Syfy like a lot of sci-fi novels. Just you see the same same things and I thought you’re still remind me a bit of Emile Zola, except that was Emile Zola like Noemie probably talk more about this. She is actually read him in French like it’s like a suffocating atmosphere years was extravagant like there is this twisted dark right things are grappling and knowing and and it’s and it’s just there’s no clichés so much to you is when your Formulate sentences because with a lot of creators that are in this group and that will hopefully watch this when you creating sentences. Are you consciously crafting each sentence to be cliché or is it a natural unintended process where you you have this world, You have this vision and this sentence just come out unique.
[00:32:39.06] – Hiron Ennes
Oh my god, I wish now it’s it’s very deliberate process. I can spend the entire day on the single sentence. It’s actually quite frustrating. You all I can say is like sometimes all right and look at it and say now I’ve heard that sentences before. But it becomes a balancing act between like not being cliché and not being completely incomprehensible. Cause I think there are a lot of sentences that I’ve never been said. But most of them are junk. And yeah, it’s it’s a process for sure and it’s very very pretty agonizing on my part. So I don’t know if I would recommend it, but it is how you get up and at the end of the day.
[00:33:34.09] – John Knych
So you can’t because something we have something we’ve had some authors that they don’t really revise like I just you know, but you always.
[00:33:46.12] – Hiron Ennes
Pathological in fact. I have a type writer now so that I can not revise well, I’m writing a first draft I. I got it for practical purposes. So I can like actually get through something before I decide I hate it and I want to change and in the end I still do the thing where I write a book and the person of it, but at least having like having the strength of physical piece of paper that like I got to get through it before I go back later with the pen and make things up has been immensely helpful in helping me get something out to begin with because on the computer. I’m just two tempted to write a paragraph and then read it over a thousand times. Delete. Delete. Delete and then we write it from scratch. Meanwhile, it’s been at work day. I have three hundred words on my word document so at least with the writer, I get something out and then I can do that light in the editing process.
[00:35:07.12] – John Knych
The sound of painful. Thank you and.
[00:35:09.01] – Hiron Ennes
It’s all.
[00:35:11.04] – John Knych
I want to take you to write burning.
[00:35:13.24] – Hiron Ennes
Oh God, I’m so about a year and. I’m trying to think of how many hours. It would have taken me to write. Oh God, I wrote at least for for hours a day every day for a year and I’m not going to my head, but that’s it. That’s a lot of time. I hear your story about people like writing. Writing a book and five weeks or whatever and I’m like. Oh my god, I wish I’m so you.
[00:35:52.09] – John Knych
Think you back to me if you have a question.
[00:35:56.01] – Orateur 2
Yes, how does the process of.
[00:35:58.07] – Noémie
Writing a second book compared to the process writing. The first one did you have some sound of pressure because the first one was pretty successful. I guess like people did like it because it was awesome. But it was you know a book that really changed a lot of things I guess for science When you came out and did you have some of pressure or where you like people like the first one ? So I’m good to go. I can be a bit weird and I can do something about something. I wouldn’t have necessarily done in the first book. Did you have things like that going through your head and just going through it again ?
[00:36:32.06] – Hiron Ennes
I wish that I wish that I did. But what was going through my head was performance anxiety and you no fear of the sophomore syndrome where whatever it comes next. It’s invariably worse than what can before. If people hated each than they wouldn’t read my second one, which was bad have people loved which I was afraid they would like this one, which is also bad. So whatever it was, it was bad. I actually so when I signed on It was for two big deal and the second book that he was like a high fantasy sort of music by magic and astrology. Best giant creature fever, dream of high fantasy and I. Wish that I tried to write that during my research year in school and it was an other failure. It was so it was. I don’t think it was bad. But it just wasn’t the right time to write this. It’s like epic fantasy that was running me as I was trying to keep up with it. And I was that this was before the typewriter too.
[00:37:59.22] – Hiron Ennes
So this was me spending that our own words just kind of like. It was a really heartfelt book, Broke it and my soul, I gave part of it to my editor at the end of the year. And he’s like no, we can’t really run with this, So I put that one away I read more about a week and then I started German, and I think at that point having having failed something before it even came out made things a little better when it came to Vermin because I’m like you know what it can’t be worse than the last one. So it was like it was kind of a rollercoaster of like performance anxiety and some sort of like writing with the thought of thought of like. What would say about this like what he like this or like with this section need to sensitivity reader, blablabla. And you know it wasn’t really cool to Writing well and I said that you actually get something done and writing well and since that your writing something that you want to write regardless of what you might comes in the future, you know.
[00:39:20.03] – Hiron Ennes
So it was it was involved process for sure.
[00:39:24.23] – Noémie
Okay, alright. Thank you. I hope that we get to have the music best high fantasy with a fever dream into it. I mean it because it sounds very awesome. So I get it. I guess that’s sometimes we will have this. But thank you so interesting.
[00:39:38.24] – Hiron Ennes
I hope when they see the light of day, but we’ll see.
[00:39:45.02] – John Knych
If you know I’m back to brandon if you have a question.
[00:39:49.01] – Brandon
Yes, this might be a little bit of you not but when I was doing this. It wasn’t about to me that the structure right two different timeperiod that the first is that by design. There was I just not paying attention.
[00:40:07.02] – Hiron Ennes
Now it was by design, it was by design. I used to be a dancer and a lot more opaque.
[00:40:15.21] – Brandon
I just.
[00:40:19.10] – Hiron Ennes
Not know it’s it. It’s hidden.
[00:40:23.09] – Brandon
I love you. So I guess my my question about that is how I feel like they are kind of things and more. So as you go along. Did you write like an outline before the kind of pieces all these together and come as you are the things are revealed. Did you have to outline ? That are you just that’s just how you write it.
[00:40:54.09] – Hiron Ennes
It’s a bit of both like you and this is how I’ve been answering. Every question is like intergrated with each other, but I wrote and I started writing the book I delighted that outline, I wrote a different outline. I wrote a little bit more in the book, I changed that outline. So I feel like I’m learning about this about myself and real time is that everything that I write things to be of my goal was like to have people arrived at that conclusion at different point in the narrative, so I would sprinkle things here and there and make some of my early readers took a long like friends and family. They all read my stuff one of my readers who clearly we share your mind figure it out like with and like the first to chapter and I make like what ? And then like my sister didn’t figure it out and like way down so clearly there are like there are different Different time at which people arrived at that revelations and I kind of wanted to keep that because I think it’s it’s kind of cool to see like you figure it out when and whenever I got the text message.
[00:42:18.24] – Hiron Ennes
I’d be like what part of the book ? Are you And that be like I’m about you know this person of the way through and I’m like. OK ? That’s a good. That’s a good spot. I can I want to build like like a diagram of it like a history of the time. I wish people figure it out I think.
[00:42:34.18] – Brandon
I think I was about half way through it. That’s it. I feel like this will be a good book to read. So I’m sure, there’s a lot of him and there that would you could catch on a second, second Read.
[00:42:50.09] – Hiron Ennes
Here I wanted to write something that had readvalue because I encountered so few of those books like just in everyday life that I don’t know I find that meaning a book that you finish and you’re like how I am going to read. This is kind of and special thing for me. So I was hoping that.
[00:43:08.18] – Brandon
I think.
[00:43:10.12] – Hiron Ennes
Thank you.
[00:43:12.01] – Brandon
Thank you.
[00:43:13.17] – John Knych
Yes, may be here in the point. I wish people discover what’s going on is the litmus test for how they know you. Maybe you know. Yes.
[00:43:22.21] – Hiron Ennes
Yes, They are like how I know you’re all I know all the things I know what they are up to you.
[00:43:30.01] – John Knych
And I don’t share this with Brandon and everyone else, but I went dark and social media for like the last two days to make sure that I finished the book and what make me go there was I opened the good show and I saw Brandon just write the reveals and I immediately I push to the side. I was like that I was cause I could since I could since there was going on, but I think about sixty-five person take two third yeah, but not at me just jumping in alright. Thank you Brandon back to change if you have to have a question.
[00:44:02.15] – Orateur 8
I don’t have a question.
[00:44:03.11] – Jenn
But I just wanted to add to that that. I finished the book and I immediately thought I need to read this again just because I wanted to pick up those things that were sprinkle old through before I realized what was going on and I was just that was a really great feeling. So you think you think.
[00:44:24.17] – John Knych
And we’re quick before he moved to Brian head you encounter in this world for one watching this, but had you encountered this parallel type thing before is that your own construction.
[00:44:40.06] – Hiron Ennes
I have it might be a thing situation where where I’ve seen it before I wasn’t really. It doesn’t really jump out in my mind as something that I’ve seen like. I mean I’m sure, I have someone is doing it. There are a lot of different narratives or they are like to know that meet in the middle of two that meet at the end or something like that. But time is nothing.
[00:45:22.20] – John Knych
I’ve never think pretty and that’s good. But I never seen it done in the way that you did it. I’m just.
[00:45:30.15] – Hiron Ennes
A cool. I’m I’m sure it’s there. But it might just be one of those things you know.
[00:45:40.02] – John Knych
I don’t do you, Brian, if you have a question.
[00:45:45.14] – Brian
Yeah, That’s where I would say that that it felt even if it was something else like the combination of the different elements differently get it felt like something to me. I have a kind of I guess what kind of specific questions in the use of the manual. So we have the manual of this kind of us like it was like bedtime stories to extend and we have no memorizing the manual of all the different entry and how they have been new entry in a while, but then we get all of a sudden. I just a bunch of the story starts picking up. WE first get the one like you knew that they’re like using the produces all these weapons and all these things. But then the outcome of from that is that they have all of these other entry and some of them felt like they were actually potentially kind of Vermin, They were other things that seemed to fit in with what was already in the manual that we knew about, but then other words are like people infected by this people affected by this other product of this other people who worked for this specific company and the manual kind of turned into almost a form of like, I’m going to write a list of my political opponents and put them into this.
[00:47:07.12] – Brian
And now we’re going for him. I guess it’s kind of someone what you thought about you, but was this so more social commentary.
[00:47:17.00] – Hiron Ennes
Yes, it was. It was very deliberate and. Not to settle, but in a city where like extermination and funding of giants. Big things to be like in every day. One way of you know essentially the amazing and eradicate political thought that you don’t like this to just add the people who have those into the manual. So like I think at the end, they had like newspapers like something Certaines. Printing house to the manual and they just add anyone to the manual that they want to run away with so. No.
[00:48:09.05] – Orateur 9
No paroles in the world.
[00:48:11.12] – Brian
Or.
[00:48:12.05] – Hiron Ennes
Not at all.
[00:48:15.20] – John Knych
Thank you Brian before my last question. I’m. Back on the the the parallel structure. You did that we all have considered unique. I think it is presented so so well for for me. Brandon mentioned the group that you’re revealed are almost like nonchalant right ? It’s like you know like it’s like a very soul like. Yep. Yep. Here’s the Here’s what is going on. But the the way that it’s mixed with the society. That’s not only collapsed and his collapsing and it’s built on top of each other. And there are these fantastic elements, right ? These chemicals that change people it just it fits fait de make it felt very plausible for the world that that you built which I think that’s not always true with that type of parallel structures that you got almost feels like a cheesy. It can feel like a cheesy moment if the world doesn’t doesn’t work for it, but alright my my last question. We’ve had a question of authors before which is you just mentioned this talk your research here and I saw online that you.
[00:49:25.14] – John Knych
I don’t have this is true. This could just be a lie online, but that you have you to research with disease or medical stuff. Could you talk about your work outside of writing and if it inform your writing at all you so.
[00:49:39.17] – Hiron Ennes
I am I’m a doctor Now, I wrote like in the the period between underground and medical school. I took that research year, I did actually research on Covid vaccination and development of antibodies after vaccination and all levels of antibodies change over time and like between demographic. And during that research here was when I wrote the the big fantasy that never saw the light of day, and then vermin I wrote during the last year of medical school and my first year of residency, which I would not recommend. I woke up it for every morning to do it. I am now a pathologie residents, so I am. I have one more year of residency and then I’m going into forensic pathology fellowship and then I’ll be a real friends before just after that so two years, Then I’ll be a real doctor. Who will.
[00:51:01.23] – Orateur 2
Not ?
[00:51:07.05] – Hiron Ennes
Be enough. I feel like the stuff that is my writing from my work is more on the story of art lab science side rather than like the death investigation and crime side. But we see that changes in the future is like a sort of shift from you know a research in hospital work and two medical examiners work. So we’ll see where it goes very interesting.
[00:51:36.06] – John Knych
Thank you. And I go out one more person who we had on this group and was also a tort author of Djèli Clark. And you know.
[00:51:45.24] – Hiron Ennes
Everything.
[00:51:47.01] – John Knych
Yes, we actually discover the master of Giants As a group but I bring them up because he works at the historian as a he has a PhD in the history with us that like none of his colleagues are students know that he published scifi. So the question is who you do your other doctors or colleagues know that you have this other life or do you keep it secret ?
[00:52:15.03] – Hiron Ennes
I keep it on the day by day. So I used to be totally secret when I thought I was gonna go into clinical medicine and like my patient can read this. They can’t be like Oh my doctor came up with that there and saying. Hum, but now that I am more in the pathologie. The sort of assumption is that you are in saying if you’re in pathologie, so it’s more socially acceptable to do right weird stuff and pathologie, so a couple of me now and a couple of my Generally like it’s not really conversation piece. Cause it’s usually not to what whatever I’m talking about with them. But if there like what would you do on your holiday ? I say well, I was my book tour. So if they ask I’ll bring it up.
[00:53:13.13] – John Knych0
Thank you.
[00:53:14.05] – John Knych
That was my last question. So any final any final question.
[00:53:20.21] – Brandon
After the recording.
[00:53:23.13] – John Knych
Okay.
[00:53:26.05] – Brandon
Okay.
[00:53:27.20] – John Knych
Noemi. Jeanne. Brian. Any any final. Question. Alright. Well, thank you very much. I’m gonna end the recording in a couple sequence. It was a pleasure hearing you talk about your your process the book. Thank you so much.
[00:53:45.05] – Hiron Ennes
Thank you so much. It’s really fun.