Transcript/Table of Contents
Question 1 (Virginie): Could you explain the origin of the quotes and epitaphs at the beginning of the book? The Sally Rooney quote and the passage? (0-4:17)
Question 2 (Virginie): But you did not study anthropology? (Explanation of why the characters studied anthropology) (4:17-6:28)
Commentary (Virginie): In a sense you are an anthropologist of the Millennial generation in Slovenia. (6:28-7:21)
Question 3/Commentary: (John) One of the goals of Printim Editions is to glorify foreign literature. What struck us about your novel was not only your writing style but the fact that you are Slovenian and we knew very little about Slovenian culture. We have a friend whose wife is Bosnian and she said that “Slovenia is like the Ivy League of the Balkans.” Could you elaborate for us Slovenian identify, and how it fits into your novel? (7:21-8:05)
Slovenian Idenity (8:05-11:20)
Question 4 (Virginie): Could you pitch your book in a few words? (11:20-11:33)
Katarina pitching the novel (11:33-12:35)
Question 5 (Virginie): Is your book a political book? It is better than My Brilliant Friend…the choir is an island, isolated in amongst these political discussion between the characters…do you agree that it is a political book? (12:38-14:38)
Full Transcript:
[00:00:00.26] – John Knych
Hello everyone, thank you for being here for Printed Edition’s third book launch, and a big thank you to Brett and Kalina at Brick Lane Bookshop for hosting this event. We’re very excited to be here and to talk with Katerina Grumbach-Zeh for her debut novel, first English translation of Nobody Knows Anybody. So, first question Shall I ask the first question? Yes.
[00:00:31.27] – Virginie Actis
So thank you, Katrina, and thank you, Brett and Colleen. My first question is about all the references you have in the books, and especially the mix, the interesting mix epitaph in the beginning of the book. So a quote by Sally Rooney, reference to social work, a reference to, in the book, to Claude Lévi-Strauss, which is a French writer, anthropologist. Well, what I mean, is your book a response to all this, to all these quotes, all these authors, all these references?
[00:01:14.14] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yeah, first of all, I would like to also say thank you very much for having me and for organizing that, and also for deciding to translate my novel, because as someone who comes from a very small nation, we know how hard it is to, to see our work in, in such a big international language and to present it to the new audience. So I’m really, really thankful and I’m very happy to be here. Oh, to be honest, not really. It was not on purpose. So, um, I, I remember I found that quote from Sally Rooney’s novel when my novel was almost finished. It was just 2 months before I sent the finished novel to my editor. And I remember I was on a plane and I read this this novel, which is “The Wonderful World Where Are You” or something like that. And I remember seeing that quote and it felt like, oh, that’s the idea of my novel. And it’s so beautiful. It’s so, so nicely put in that quote. So, and I also like to see books with some kind of a quote at the beginning, like They prepare you for something. They show you in which direction the story will go.
[00:02:48.05] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
And maybe also they spark some curiosity. Um, when it comes to other references, as you mentioned, like, um, Levi Strauss and maybe these parts of this, um, book about, um, uh, Rojava. This is just to build the world of— in which Masha and Max live. I like to have a very clear setting in my literature, like clear year and place. And also, since they’re both anthropologists, I wanted to kind of copy the real way of communicating anthropology students. So referencing to some works, because when you’re a student and you study, uh, like deeply, if you’re deeply interested in your field of study, then these references, the literature you read, they build your world. And I thought that it will be more authentic if I include that in my novel. And I think that it perfectly also builds this, I mean, it tries to be powerful also when it speaks about a world in which we live now.
[00:04:16.24] – Virginie Actis
Yes. And talking about anthropology, it’s not what you studied when you were a student.
[00:04:21.11] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yeah. Exactly.
[00:04:21.29] – Virginie Actis
Even though you know it pretty well.
[00:04:24.02] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yeah. Anthropology is— I remember I just said the same thing 2 weeks ago when I was, I had an event in Slovenian town. I said that I chose anthropology because I was looking for a field of study that to the person who studies it sometimes, or in many cases, it feels, um, not useful in a sense, like, um, not only for the person who studies, but also in like, if you are from, I don’t know, like Masha, she comes from a family of people who are more, um, practical. Let’s say like that. And a decision to study anthropology, it’s like, Why do you waste your time and your, like, you also, um, your chance to get an education, which is free in Slovenia, for being anthropologists? Like, why? Um, so this is why I chose it. I found it, um, a great field of study to show, yeah, this feeling of not having a voice of studying something that is only speaking to a small circle. And at the same time, I thought to myself that since she sings in a choir, like to study a choir as an ecosystem, it’s almost like an anthropological work.
[00:06:09.05] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
True. And yeah, I’m not an anthropologist myself and I did research on how to be, how to study that. And yeah, I think that no one said to me that it’s not like that to be anthropologist in Ljubljana, for example.
[00:06:26.28] – Virginie Actis
So you’re aware in the sense that when we read your book, it’s like an insight of a generation, like an anthropologist. You are an anthropologist of a generation of young Slovenian people.
[00:06:41.15] – Speaker 4
Yeah.
[00:06:42.00] – Virginie Actis
And it’s very interesting to see how there is a— I don’t know how to say that in English—
[00:06:46.15] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
mis en abyme, you say that? Mis en abyme in English? Or—
[00:06:50.23] – John Knych
put in the abyss.
[00:06:51.23] – Virginie Actis
I mean, the characters are anthropologists, and you yourself as a novelist, you’re looking at this generation as an anthropologist.
[00:07:03.28] – John Knych
Excellent. I want to thank all of you again for being here, and that at the end of our questions, we’ll leave it to the floor if any of you want to ask questions. So I just want to say that out loud. Um, so Katerina, another, um, so Virgin and I were the founders of Printemps Editions, and one of the goals of Printemps Editions is to glorify foreign literature translations, and what first struck us about your novel was not only the writing style but the fact that you— we didn’t know anything about Slovenian culture, Slovenian literature. And I have a close friend in the U.S. whose wife is Bosnian, and when I told him about this book, he said that his wife said Slovenia is the Ivy League of the Balkans. And I didn’t really understand that, but I I’d like to hear your opinion not only on that perspective, but what is Slovenian identity and how did you try and capture that in your novel?
[00:08:06.05] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Can I start with an anecdote? So when I was a student at the university, I took a class in Croatian, so Croatian language, because I studied Slavic languages. And our professor, she was obviously Croatian. And she once asked us as a practice, as we were learners, she asked us, have you ever been to the Balkans? So if you ask that a bunch of Slovenians, then that’s an idea that, okay, so we are not in the Balkans, right? And everyone was saying, yeah, I’ve been to Sarajevo, Belgrade, Sofia. And then it was my turn and I said, yeah, I’ve been to Zagreb, which is the capital of Croatia. And she was like, that’s not the Balkans. Um, so if Zagreb is not the Balkans, then also Slovenia can’t be because it’s, it’s, you know, um, but so that’s, that’s always a very like, always starts a discussion. Because they will learn you in Slovenian school that Slovenia is a Central European country. But as I think of it, as I live it, I think that’s what makes the Slovenian identity so special and why am I also interested in it to write about it. It’s this special location in Europe because it has an influence from Austria, which is obviously Central European influence, but also from Hungary, which is which is Eastern European.
[00:09:44.16] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
You can also say it’s South European since Italy is on the west, and then on the south there’s Croatia. And also, of course, what makes us a part of this Balkan kind of community, it’s that Slovenia was part of Yugoslavia, which was the country of countries that are now obviously the Balkan countries. And Everything we do, like what we eat, what we, um, we sing, we like our music, cuisine, architecture in, in this, in these cities, um, our culture, literature, everything is a mixture of these influences. This is what it makes it special and it makes it Slovenian. And yeah, you can have a very like people from the, from the real Balkans, they will when they visit Slovenia, they will say you are not Balkan country because you’re so well organized. You wake up early, you work hard. You, you have this, um, like high quality way of life. It’s very clean. The country is extremely clean. Um, but like if you go to a wedding and after midnight, yeah, you are at the Balkan wedding, you know? Um, so it’s, It’s kind of a, yeah, it takes something from each of these cultures around us.
[00:11:10.04] – John Knych
There’s a great, great wedding scene in this book for anyone who hasn’t read it yet of the traditions and party.
[00:11:16.25] – Virginie Actis
Yes, thank you much. Because we jumped right away in the anthropology question, and could you pitch for our guests here In a few words, pitch your book. What would you say about your book?
[00:11:33.13] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
I always struggle with that when people ask me what is the book.
[00:11:37.03] – Virginie Actis
Yes, it’s very difficult to say. Yeah, yeah, because it’s a good book. This is why it’s so difficult, I think, too.
[00:11:43.26] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
So I say that it’s a story about a student of anthropology who comes from a Catholic family but she is in love with a guy who comes from a different background, and they have a lot of discussions about different topics that shape their world. But it’s also— it’s set in 2015, which is the peak of immigrant crisis, refugee crisis, and this also influenced everything. And now that I told that, I remembered I skipped the part about choir, which is also important. So it’s very difficult to pitch it.
[00:12:30.26] – Virginie Actis
Yeah. But no, you’re right. It’s very difficult. But I was thinking when I was listening to you, I was thinking, how would you pitch Madame Bovary? How would you pitch a great book? And it’s exactly the same. You have a line and you have subtle lines that mixes and entangle within one, within another. And that leads me to another question I wanted to ask you. Your book is highly political to me when I read this, because to be honest, in the beginning, when, if you pitch it as a millennial novel, I don’t think it’s really true. I mean, I’m not a millennial and I was really interested in your book. I really I enjoyed it more than some books. John told me when I, when he found your book, when you start dealing with him, he told me, “It looks like My Brilliant Friend.” No, it’s for me, it’s better. It’s, I wish you as much success as My Brilliant Friend. Let’s hope. But it’s for me, it’s better because it’s very subtle. The way you picture desire between these young characters, the way you have these political discussions. At some point they talk about France and the hijab and things, and it’s very interesting because of course it’s, it’s, it’s, we all know what Europe is dealing with, this extreme radical right movement that pervade.
[00:14:08.20] – Virginie Actis
So no, I think your book is political because in a way some discussions are not political at all, and the choir, the choir, how do you say it?
[00:14:19.11] – John Knych
Choir, yeah.
[00:14:20.04] – Virginie Actis
The choir is like an island, you know, completely isolated in this migration things and And at the same time, it’s even more striking what Europe is dealing with. So do you have— when I say it’s a highly political book, would you agree with me?
[00:14:45.12] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
I do agree with you, but I have to say that I always say, you know, there is a tendency among Slovenians to say, I’m not interested in politics. Uh, also like this kind of topics can be really, really— you avoid these topics at the like family lunch or whatever. Um, and every time that we are disappointed in like in a government or whatever, we will say, oh, I, I’m—
[00:15:19.24] – Speaker 4
I—
[00:15:19.29] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
at the end of the day, it doesn’t— it’s not connected to my like personal life, so I don’t care. But if we admit, we should care, you know, it’s because it does matter who, um, for whom we will vote for. And, um, but I think that fiction is a great way to, to show that. It’s much more stronger than for example, a Facebook post.
[00:15:54.02] – Virginie Actis
Oh wow.
[00:15:55.08] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Though it can reach, you know, Facebook posts can reach more people, but it, it goes away, away very fast. It’s, it can be very, very quickly forgotten. Whereas the book, it stays, and it can also show you different, like, backgrounds. And because now you have, like, the whole character, you know why this person things, why they think that, because they have certain background, for example, something that led them to this opinion. And I also, I can also add that there is one review on Goodreads by a reader. I think it’s, it’s not a bad and it’s not a good review. I think it was like 3-star review saying that it’s a good book, but the author should be more clear on their sights. And when I read that review, I was like, thank you, this is exactly what I wanted. And yeah, I really hope that this is something that people feel.
[00:17:07.23] – Virginie Actis
We feel the mystery. I mean, this is why also it’s very interesting because the character, there remains, there remain mysteries for the reader.
[00:17:15.24] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
And this is her opinion then.
[00:17:19.11] – John Knych
Thank you. This is a very selfish personal question, but so Virginie is French, I’m American, we’re from different cultures, and while reading Nobody Knows Anybody, there are these little references to US culture like The main character listens to— Masha listens to Taylor Swift. Characters are drinking Coca-Cola.
[00:17:42.22] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Um, Lana Del Rey.
[00:17:44.00] – John Knych
Lana Del Rey. That was an opening chapter. Um, and I was curious about how much American culture has spread into Slovenia. And there’s a Facebook— there’s a conflict between a character and a Facebook scam. And I’m curious about Slovenians’ view of American culture And do they reject it? Do they— are they angry with it? Do they accept it? You know, what’s their view of American culture?
[00:18:14.08] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
So I think that you’re the only reader who would call these things details in American culture because it’s so part of our everyday life that we don’t even think of it as American culture, to be honest. Like Facebook, for example, or, um, also as, I mean, someone once, like a journalist asked me once, why do I have this object like a MacBook laptop or iPhone? Why, why do I mention them? And I said, I mentioned them every time, or maybe a brand of a, of a purse. I mentioned them only, uh, when the thing goes about Max, for example. He has a laptop, a MacBook. He has an iPhone, whereas we don’t know what kind of phone Masha has and what kind of computer, because it shows her how she— I mean, it shows first of all his status, and also it’s written through her lenses, so she will not say, “I took my Samsung,” you know, because she doesn’t really perceive that in that way. About Lana Del Rey and Taylor Swift, I have to say that yes, she loves Lana Del Rey, but she doesn’t like Taylor Swift. This is a mistake that people usually say about the book.
[00:19:35.19] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
She tries to love her, but she doesn’t. But okay, um, she thinks that she has to because everyone loves it, but she struggles with that. Um, okay, now the the answer to your question. To be honest, at the moment I don’t think the US is very popular in Slovenia.
[00:19:58.14] – John Knych
In the US? Well, the US is popular in the US.
[00:20:01.29] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
But it will always be like that, that if you, if someone moved to the US and they build their life there, they, they work there, they have their family there, become First Lady. That they made it, like their life, yeah, it got better. Um, and there will always be this kind of a— I think that it will stay like this forever, that it will always be seen like an option to live an American dream that we obviously don’t, or probably. But with this, at the same, at the same time, we kind of start to appreciate more things that we took for granted before, like public healthcare, education. Once my friend said, when we had an event like that, she’s also a writer, she said in Slovenia, people will take time for you. They will have coffee with you. They will not be in a rush. They will send you an out-of-office email and they will not send you any more emails. They will disappear for weeks if they have to take a break. And these are all values that we are aware of. Um, but yeah, at the same time, It is everywhere, the influence of the American culture.
[00:21:42.08] – Virginie Actis
Yeah. Now, if I was listening very, very carefully about the influence of American culture, do we have questions in the audience maybe?
[00:21:57.17] – John Knych
Or because we have more questions. Yeah, but if anyone wants to raise their hand and chime in. If not, we have more questions.
[00:22:09.21] – Virginie Actis
Audience?
[00:22:12.22] – Speaker 4
I have many questions. As someone who has lived here for a long time, who grew up in Slovenia, I have maybe kept out of touch with Slovenian literature for a while, and I’m really— I haven’t read your book yet. I will, in Slovenian. But what I’m really curious about is how would you position this book in relation to other kind of contemporary literature and kind of the literature, kind of culture in Slovenia?
[00:22:46.13] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Okay, so I think that when it came out 2 years ago in Slovenian language, it was a little bit It was something new. A surprise. Because then in a month, another similar book came out from my friend, as I mentioned, also first narrative story about a student at the Faculty of Arts. Similar, like, setting. And there are few other female writers similar age as I am. But we have very different voices, I would say. So I wouldn’t compare us. But yeah, I think that it was a little bit Yeah, I just had a surprise which also brought some suspicion around it. Like, there was even a discussion at my press conference whether that’s literature, because it’s not a typical, you know, like, there is a huge influence to contemporary Slovenian prose from postmodernism. This book is not like that. And then, for example, one thing that I felt was that it was said that it could be autofiction, which is not. But because it was so like a surprise that there is a first-person narrative, a female author, she, like the writer, was also at the Faculty of Arts. That must be her. That’s her story.
[00:24:45.13] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yeah, that would be my answer. So a little bit of a— I think it’s the beginning of something new. Maybe. I don’t know.
[00:24:57.09] – Speaker 4
I expected you to say that because I think, as you said, that’s been kind of the literary culture in Slovenia feels a little bit behind. And I was interested in— you were talking about kind of the first person female narrative being quite novel.
[00:25:14.02] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yeah, yeah, I, I think so. That’s, um, it’s a possibility that it’s like that then.
[00:25:21.01] – John Knych
Also taking place in 2015 or 2016, um, I think is also new in English. Um, on the train here, Katerina, Virgin, and I were talking about Max as a character and his relationship with Masha and how it gradually develops. Um, my question is about your crafting of him as a character, his personality, because in the beginning for me I found him a little off-putting, but then by the end I was more on his side. Um, how did you create the relationship and did you Did you really work to have it gradually develop or did it come out naturally? Could you talk about their relationship?
[00:26:11.16] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
So I remember that in one of the first drafts he was just a random guy who was there and she— and because I really, really enjoy writing about— I don’t want to call it kill off, I would say romantic, whatever, if it’s romantic, I don’t know. But I really like that, and I knew from the very beginning that I will not write a book without that motive. But then I realized this is so boring, like every student at some point they fall for someone, they have something like I will not write just a story about two people who randomly met each other. And I missed something, and that I added later, that he is someone that he already knows because their families were close in the past, and then they split because of the different political opinions. And, um, When I started to write that, I kind of got a— I saw the potential to make a character who will be like a— like this guy that I— there’s many kind of guys I met when I was student at the Faculty of Arts who will going to explain you the world. Though you don’t need them to explain the world to you, but they will.
[00:27:50.16] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
And they will be like, they will present themselves like they know everything and they, they kind of understand, um, how the world works. And they’re also very privileged, but they are not aware of their privileges. And I found the potential in him to show that kind of a person. But as you spend time with your character, you start to like them. You know, they’re— I mean, also characters are yours, like you made them. And as you spend time with them, you start to like them as you did, you know, first. Yeah. He, um, he maybe appears annoying, but with time also, since it’s the first person narrative, I had to think how Masha sees him, and she’s in love, so she doesn’t really see his, you know, how sometimes he behaves himself. And yeah, so at the end, I also wanted to show when they have this moment of vulnerability where he opens about his tension with his father. Well, something needs to lead to what will happen next. And vulnerability is a great place to start that. But at the same time, it also shows that everyone hurts. You know, as this song by Ed Sheeran says, “Everybody hurts,” which is a cliché, but it’s true.
[00:29:30.25] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
And yeah, I think that’s important for me to have characters that have a lot of dimensions and they can— you like them, but you don’t, but then you like them again. Something like that.
[00:29:46.24] – Virginie Actis
Even Agatha.
[00:29:48.10] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Exactly. Yeah. I didn’t want to make an anti-hero, but a person who is A good musician.
[00:30:00.02] – Virginie Actis
Yeah, it’s an interesting character, complex.
[00:30:05.24] – John Knych
You have a question?
[00:30:06.23] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
No, no.
[00:30:07.17] – John Knych
Well, this segues into music. So as we mentioned before, the choir is a significant part of this story. Do you have a musical background? I heard you mentioned before that everyone in Slovenia is in a choir. How did that contribute to your own exploration of this in the book?
[00:30:28.23] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yeah, yeah, choirs are like a big thing in our culture. Also, as I know people who are professional in that field, they will say that Slovenia is one of the best countries when it comes to choir singing. And I went to school, it is a Catholic private which focuses a lot on singing in a choir. So I sang in a choir, a girls’ choir, and I loved it. It was great. But it does appear as something— I still remember that it always felt like that good girls you know, sing in this choir, like, and our conductor, he even said to us, like, you need to have high grades because I want to have only disciplined girls here. So it’s not like a, it’s not a very easygoing hobby. It’s a real thing.
[00:31:34.08] – John Knych
And then I also sang in some more choirs and So you’re pulling directly from experience then in a lot of these songs?
[00:31:44.02] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yes, absolutely. I’m also a second soprano, as Masha is, but I stopped singing 7 years ago and I don’t miss it, to be honest. But I think that the same thing happened to me as I said before about the politics, the best way to write about it. It’s fiction. It’s the same thing here. Like, I really love singing in a choir, and I always felt that I need to write something, and I thought that fiction will be a great place to use that motive, um, that it’s quite relatable but at the same time special. Um, yeah, but also there’s many good pieces, um, that I mentioned in this book that I really wanted to show Masha’s, you know, this hesitation between pop music on one side and another side there is this choir-like music and very formal.
[00:32:52.12] – John Knych
Thank you.
[00:32:53.28] – Virginie Actis
Yes, I had a question about your pantheon writers.
[00:32:57.13] – Speaker 4
You say that? Panthéon in English.
[00:32:59.00] – Virginie Actis
Le Panthéon. Yeah, because you’re reading now Brothers Karamazov, I just told you. And if you had to choose between, I mean, two of three important writers for you who inspired you, or who you’re reading and rereading.
[00:33:18.23] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yeah, so, um, when it comes to this book, obviously I took a lot of inspiration from normal people. But okay, so since I, yeah, I mentioned that reading this year, I reread Brothers Karamazov again. I have this decision that I read something, some, at least one classic piece work of fiction. And usually I always read Russian classics because I studied Russian. And maybe when I was a student of Russian, I only briefly read it and I didn’t have time to really immerse myself into a book. And what I like about— so for example, in the past years I read again Fathers and Sons by Turbinho, and for example, short stories, novellas by J-Ho. And what I like about these writers is that— so obviously I like to write about the physical part of human relationships, like I’m also interested in sensuality and everything that comes with, with attraction. But what I like about it is that these writers, since they were writers in a different era, they couldn’t be so obvious as we can be now, and they had to do it differently. And I always look for things how they did it. For example, in Brothers Karamazov, you always, like, you’re never sure whether for example, Katerina Ivanovna had to sleep with Mitya Karamazov for money.
[00:35:12.17] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
And this question always stays kind of present, and maybe this is why she really wants to get married, because she’s no longer a virgin. And this is one of the possibilities, and it makes it very painful, and you can feel that also, that passion between her and Ivan, for example. And I always, like, I’m always curious how they did it without being so obvious. For example, there is a very beautiful quote in Fathers and Sons where, um, son— so son comes to his father’s home and he, um, so he remarried father with a very like young woman, like 20 years or 25 years, I don’t know, or even more. And she appears with their baby. There is a sentence, “There is nothing more beautiful in the world than a young woman with a baby.” And it’s so like, it’s so different than what Sans claim to be interested in. How this, how, for example, Turgenev showed through this, simple sentence, the physical part of human life. So this is why I always return to that in his works.
[00:36:36.16] – Virginie Actis
This is something you manage in the book because it’s, as I said before, it’s very subtle. You have a very subtle style and things are sometimes non-said, non-dit, unsaid, and it’s very, very, very well made.
[00:36:51.13] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Thank you, Eponine.
[00:36:52.09] – John Knych
And I’ll add to that, to the And for those of you who haven’t read it yet, um, question, um, the, the protagonist Masha, you, you don’t really know in the beginning what she thinks about things, what her desire— it’s very subdued, and only through the journey of the book do you start to really see who she is. Um, this question is similar to what I asked you before with Max, but did you— you said that you gradually got to like Max and that changed him as a character. Did your writing of Masha also change? You know, did you purposely hold back writing her in the beginning to wait to show to the reader her personality, or was this just naturally came out with the story?
[00:37:44.02] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
I kind of knew what kind of person ‘What is the personality I want for her to be?’ But at the same time, as you write characters, they do become their own people. So they will kind of also show you the way. At the same time—
[00:38:03.07] – John Knych
Well, to add to that, she seems to be kind of dragged, like she has her education exam in the beginning and she has the choir practice, like these obligations. And then she’s invited to go out to the bar where she gets sick and she’s just kind of pulled along. And it’s not until later on that she starts to have more, more decision on what she’s doing. Did you consciously work on that or did it just come out in the story as you wrote it?
[00:38:34.17] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
I would say that probably it was more intuitively. It just came out as it is. But at the same time, I wanted to write a book about a person who would, in the real world, she would be overseen, like not noticed, you know, she’s one of the students that you wouldn’t notice in a classroom when you enter. But that’s, that’s her story. So now she can tell her story. She, she is like highly introverted person. I mentioned something that she struggles with, speaking on a phone, for example. But that’s her story. So now she can— we can give her space. And the idea that it’s like it comes in front at the end is where she says to this new conductor, “No, I am going to sing the second soprano.” So she kind of grew into that, um, confrontation.
[00:39:36.26] – Virginie Actis
Yeah.
[00:39:40.19] – John Knych
Um, anyone on the floor wants to ask something?
[00:39:46.08] – Speaker 4
Sorry, I also have a similar story. I came to study here and I stayed here, so I speak Slovenian as well. I’m wondering, um, if you were to choose which sort of version to read, would you then definitely go for Slovenian, or does something happen in the English one that doesn’t happen in the Slovenian one, and vice versa? And are you planning also to make other translations? Because obviously Slovenians speak a lot of different languages, so I don’t know, Italian, German— are there other plans?
[00:40:18.17] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
So if you read Slovenian, read it in Slovenian, because I think that’s It’s— yeah, that’s my language and I can show everything that I can do in it. I mean, it’s my first book, obviously, and it’s not like the best thing I’ve ever wrote, but still, um, sometimes it’s so painful to be speaker of such a small language, you know that, because you would like people to see the beauty of it because it’s amazing. Amazing. Like, it has so many layers, so many different ways to describe things, different words, how it sounds, like linguistically it’s very rich. So obviously, Serbian language. And about translation, well, that’s a topic that I don’t know very well because I don’t work in publishing, but so translators from other languages have to buy rights of my book. And to be honest, for writers from Slovenia, we— it’s not easy to sell rights because people are just not that interested. Um, and I hope that it will, uh, come out in— I think that it should come out in as many Slavic languages as possible because I think that it will be relatable for many of them. For speakers of other Slavic languages.
[00:41:46.14] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
And with English translation, we can reach— it’s a bridge to those people because not— I mean, in Slavic countries, you can find translators from Slovenian, but hardly. Like, if you go to Spain, France, I don’t know, Norway, you will not find it. I mean, you will, but very difficult. It will be very difficult to find a translator from Slovenian. And also Jasmin, translator of this novel, he’s Slovenian. He’s, yeah, kind of very close to the U.S. culture because of his background, but still.
[00:42:24.01] – John Knych
And he’s an author who has published successful books that have won awards. Yeah, we were very happy with the translation. Yes, and so to add to your question, you think the richness of the language is is lost in the English? Like there’s less nuance that you expand even more on how the English language either cuts or paints?
[00:42:50.06] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yeah, I’m afraid I will never be able to answer that question because only native speakers know that, probably. Um, I don’t know.
[00:43:03.13] – John Knych
So it’s okay.
[00:43:06.07] – Virginie Actis
Because no, the translator did a wonderful job.
[00:43:09.03] – John Knych
Yeah, because I think it was beautiful.
[00:43:11.05] – Virginie Actis
Absolutely.
[00:43:11.29] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yeah.
[00:43:14.07] – John Knych
So I have one more question, but I’ll bring it back to the floor. Anybody want to ask a question from the audience?
[00:43:20.01] – Speaker 4
Can I ask a follow-up?
[00:43:21.01] – John Knych
Yes, of course. Yes.
[00:43:23.06] – Speaker 4
I’m really interested about how you work with a translator and what the process of translating the book was like for you. Probably it was the first time you worked with a translator. And as you said, it’s difficult to find people who are proficient in Slovenian language to the extent where— I think there’s a lot of— there’s a lot that’s unsaid in Slovenian, that there’s a lot of contextual knowledge as well for such a small country and culture. So I’m really curious how you worked with the translator and what was that relationship like?
[00:43:53.09] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Well, I trusted him, to be honest. Like, I really believe that he can do it well. I know that he’s a, yeah, a perfectionist himself, so I believe that it will work well. And when I saw the translation, I immediately found it very convincing. Then we had to— I mean, we had some kind of open questions, let’s say. How to translate certain things. There is a poem that appears, which obviously gives the title. So how we’re going to translate that, because in Slovenian, of course, it has a special rhythm. Um, but I think, I think that it’s better that the translator is Slovenian because he can understand this certain things that are so important for us. Yeah.
[00:44:51.09] – Speaker 4
And he’s a writer too, by the way.
[00:44:52.23] – Virginie Actis
Excuse me.
[00:44:53.02] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
He’s also a writer.
[00:44:54.03] – Virginie Actis
He’s also a writer.
[00:44:54.26] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
That makes a big difference.
[00:44:55.26] – Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:44:56.26] – John Knych
Yeah, there really wasn’t much back, and what he did was excellent. And this is our fifth book, and very little, really the only, and Katharina was involved with the process as well, was the poetry of the songs where there was some nuance that Katharina wanted to make sure was there. And also too, there are 7 footnotes, so like the little references References, um, like a political reference.
[00:45:24.23] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Exactly. Yeah. This is what you don’t find in the original. For example, there is an explanation like who Janša is, for example, because obviously we all know, but if you’re a reader from non-Slovenian country, then you maybe need this information.
[00:45:38.24] – John Knych
Also gatecrashing for those non-Slovenians. Do you know what gatecrashing is at a wedding ceremony? Do you wanna explain gatecrashing? Cause I thought it was very interesting. The tradition.
[00:45:49.10] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Yeah, it’s a ceremony before the wedding where the, um, the bride and the groom. So the groom comes to buy a bride. I mean, he has to give money for the bride and he has to do certain things to be kind of—
[00:46:11.09] – John Knych
And they’re often like ridiculous, right?
[00:46:12.27] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Like very ridiculous. And they know the price. With it. Uh, they drink a lot of alcohol, obviously. Um, yeah, not many couples decide to have that, but still you can, you can see that, especially in the countryside. But what is interesting here, as also Max comments, that, that they live in this, uh, you know, in Ljubljana, and they have it before the building, like not or some kind of, I mean, front of the building. Excellent.
[00:46:46.11] – John Knych
My last question, another reason why we chose this book to publish is we love the title too, Nobody Knows Anybody. And we were told that, and I’m actually curious whether you like this moniker, that you’re the Sally Rooney of Slovenia, which I’ve read Normal People and I’m not a huge fan. I think this is much, much better. This is more mystery, more intensity. A quick side point, I have a colleague, a British colleague who loves Normal People and I said, why do you love that book so much? And she said, she really broke away with Irish literature that came before. Like no one had read about a young woman in college. So you’re kind of doing the same thing in Slovenia, right? Based on what you said before that literature, Slovenian literature was, there’s never been this type of story before. Um, but my last question, which has to do with the theme of this book— so this is going to get really philosophical for a second, but, um, on our train ride here, I was reading this book called What Is Intelligence? It talks about how we model each other’s minds to understand who we are.
[00:47:53.21] – John Knych
Um, and in this book, you make this claim that we, we don’t really know each other, or it’s— we don’t The degree to which how others feel about us is a mystery. And Masha, near the end, she starts to realize this, that what she feels for Max, what she feels for her friend, it’s vague, it’s lost. Could you elaborate more on this theme? Like, did that idea drive the writing of this book? Did it just come— did you just realize it after? Could you elaborate on that?
[00:48:31.09] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
I think I realized it after. I was looking for a title. It was very difficult to find a title for the novel. And my— so when I published my first poetry book, it was under the mentorship, under the supervision of another Slovenian poet. When we were looking for a title, she said, go back to your poems and find something that speaks to you. So when I was looking for a title, I did the same thing here. So I looked what it reappears in a novel, and what it did was the poem that they sing. So the title is the quote from— is a verse from that poem. So basically it’s not mine, it’s Svetlana Makarović, which is extremely famous. Poet in Slovenia. She’s also a very peculiar political figure, as we also added in a footnote, right? So, and I think that when I saw that verse, I was like, yeah, that’s what my story is about. And yeah, I don’t know what to add. To be honest.
[00:49:50.05] – John Knych
Um, well, I don’t want to give away the ending, but you know, there’s— don’t.
[00:49:57.07] – Speaker 4
Yeah.
[00:49:57.21] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Actually, can I, can I share another anecdote?
[00:50:00.18] – John Knych
Sure. Sure.
[00:50:01.05] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
When I had a launch event, uh, just after the book came out and there was a time for questions, there was a reader, uh, she, um, raised a hand and she like when it was her turn, she stood up and she said, but at the end of la la la la la, and she told the end to the whole, like, because she took it so personally. And that others in the audience, I said, oh my God. I mean, nothing like that happens. Like, it’s, it’s not, but they were just like, did you just tell the end? Um, and then she came to me and she said, I’m really sorry. I didn’t know that, uh, people who come to to this kind of event, they haven’t read the book yet. And I was like, it’s perfectly fine. They will read it now, you know, because it’s okay to spoil sometimes. So yeah.
[00:50:54.27] – John Knych
Well, we won’t spoil here. That’s a good, that’s a good place to end. Thank you very much, Katerina.
[00:51:01.20] – Katarina Gomboc Čeh
Thank you very much.
[00:51:02.14] – John Knych
Yes. And thank you all for being here. Okay, yeah, if anyone wants, um, Katrina to sign, um, your books, um, do that.